Can we stand together?

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Last post made 13 years ago by BMWSTACK
genenco
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  • genenco
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  • OK, I will go out on a limb this time, and for what I feel is a very good reason.

    As you all are aware, Cocoa Casino and Paradise 8 voided all of TAADAAs winnings through a minor oversight on his part, but they refused to pay what he rightfully won and should have paid.

    They are now offeirng a free contest and I am asking you to post that you will NOT participate in the contest due to what they did to TAAADAAA.

    I am not going to think worse of you if you do try it, but I think if we really want to start letting casinos know that we are unhappy and disagree with what they did previously, this may get their attention.

    Let me also say I DO appreciate all the offerings that this website can offer including contests. I also appreciate the work others do also. But there comes a time when you have to stand up and say "No, this is not right" and I am thinking that the time is now.

    Let us stand together this time.

  • i'm in!, i'm out!

    that makes sense , right?

  • I've just looked at the T & C's for P8 which will be the same for the others.

    "Winnings can and will be void if the winning player's account is linked to another account which has unrecovered chargebacks."

    By "unrecovered chargebacks" I would say they mean if the chargebacks are not paid...which they were in your case Taaadaaa?

    blue

  • The casino denied him and delayed a cashout he wun long before the chargeback was done. That can never be right. If they had payed him in time the chargeback would never had happened in the first place.
    And as you write Blue, unrecovered chargebacks. Many players do chargebacks and is hurting the casinos, but TAADAA didn't meen to and corrected it as fast as he could.

    If we can stand together in this matter maybe they will change their decision or i hope LCB will take them of this site. I'm so tired of casinos thinking they can do whatever they want to us players.
    They need us, we don't need them!

  • I have brought this thread to the attention of the rep.

    blue

  • Unrecovered chargebacks means NOT recovered chargebacks to me.  They recovered his chargeback.  I can see a casino holding a players winnings until the chargeback has been taken care of then releasing the winnings.  As of now their attitude is screw you, you made a mistake and we are proud of you for it so we will pocket your winnings.  I agree if we all stick together and hit these casinos where it hurts them things might change.

  • Can either a mod or Taaadaaa please fill me in on what happened here and also, Taaadaaa can you contact me personally about it as well? This is the first I've heard of this unless I'm missing something.

    Please keep something in mind though, and this is important.

    We take chargebacks extremely seriously. If players feel that they should unite together against situations like this, trust me, casinos feel even STRONGER that we should unite against players who charge back intentionally in any way shape or form.

    Aside from the fact that intentionally charging back is blatant stealing, Chargebacks are THE single biggest reason casinos keep losing their US credit card processing solutions which ends up costing tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars every time it happens. Please, at the very least understand why casinos, ours included, take charge backs so seriously.

    That said, I don't know the situation here at all and I know that TaaaDaaa has been a good player in the past so I can only assume that whatever happened here was a mistake. If he'll contact me about it I'll look into what happened and try to resolve it.

    Jason

  • I have an update to this.

    I scoured old pms and realized that we were in discussions about this mid last month. I told TaaaDaaa to talk to the VIP manager at Paradise 8 about it to get it sorted out and that if that didn't work to let me know.

    He did send a message back saying that his initial deposits were returned to him and that he had settled his chargebacks with the other Rival casino in question and wanted his winnings.

    From what I can see I didn't respond to him and this is completely my fault If that's the case I apologize for this, I'm extremely busy (I handle some of the marketing for the Jet Set group on top of affiliate management) and while I'm usually very systematic and thorough, I do make mistakes and its possible that this slipped through the cracks. Looking back I thought that I had emailed him requesting all of the details so that I could talk to Rival but I can't find any email of this nature.

    In any case, I'm speaking to him now via emails and will get this sorted out one way or another.

    Jason

  • Hi Jason,

    You can read about it here.  

    Thank you Jason.

    blue

  • 2 minutes worth of searching revealed this...
    https://lcb.org/onlinecasinobonusforum/casinos/rivals-issue-(continued)/msg139754/#msg139754

    funny how until somebody tries to organize a boycott, that no casino rep cared that a player was getting screwed.

  • Dumb question but here goes anyway.....

    What's a chargeback?!?  :-\

  • Not a dumb question at all.

    A chargeback is the reversal of a payment to an institution.  Example if you deposit $50 at a casino and then you say that you never made that deposit, the funds are reversed and the casino lose out.

    blue

  • Thanks Blue!

    Nothing at all against Taaa... but if someone does a chargeback, I can see why casinos would not be happy.

    So... If I deposited $25 at a casino and lost, I could tell the bank I didn't authorize the deposit and get my money back? 

    For the life of me, I can't see how I would ever be able to play/claim a win in the future if I did that.

    Must be missing something in regards to Taa's situation. Hope he gets the payment due as it appears he is a valued customer per the rep.

  • Just read the link Blue provided and NOW get the chargeback situation with Taa. 


  • So... If I deposited $25 at a casino and lost, I could tell the bank I didn't authorize the deposit and get my money back? 


    That's about it gabby.

    Knowing Taaadaaa as I do, I know for a fact that he would never intentionally do a chargeback.  That's definitely not his style.  An unfortunate oversight.

    blue
  • Max I certainly hope you're not referring to me.

    On the contarary, it took players trying to organize a boycott for this to be brought to my attention ..it has nothing to do with caring.

    Unfortunately, contrary to what you might think, I don't have the time in a day to constantly be scouring the forums for issues that pertain to our casinos, as much as I wish that I did.

    For the most part I rely on forum admins contacting me or players PM'ing me when an issue needs to be resolved. Which is exactly what happened in this case. I was made aware of this thread and immediately addressed.

    Gabby, Blue is exactly right.

    The problem is that every credit card processor has a threshold % of CB's to transactions that they will allow. This threshold is very low. If too many chargebacks occur then that casino will lose whats called their "merchant account" with that processor and they will not only lose the ability to process credit cards with that company but they will often also lose the reserve money that the processing company is holding as insurance. As I said, this can end up costing a considerable amount of money and will also prevent players from using their credit cards to deposit/withdraw at that casino unless another solution is acquired.

  • My understanding is that Taadaaa made the chargeback at Tropica Casino only ( I stand corrected if thats not the case ).

    Jason did he made any chargebacks at Paradise8, Cocoa Casino or ThisIsVegas ?

    If that is not the case his winnings should be paid in full.

    cheers
    Zuga

    Rated:

    5/ 5

    0.1/ 5

  • I should mention quickly that if the issue with TaaaDaaa was an eCheck one like he says, this is not the same kind of Chargeback that we have been discussing but more of an "insufficient funds in the account" type mistake that should be easy to resolved (as it was) and which shouldn't be considered a "chargeback" in the true sense of the word.

  • I believe it was an echeck but I think Taaadaaa should confirm that to you.

    blue

  • Just read your comment Zuga. To my knowledge he did not make any chargebacks at any of our 3 casinos, no. The way I understand it the chargebacks he made at Tropica were resolved anyway so I should be able to get him his winnings at P8 unless I'm missing something.

    That said, if these were ACTUAL chargebacks that were unrecovered at Tropica that person would absolutely not be getting any cashout at ANY Rival casino as they all use the same processing and merchant accounts. These policies are in place for a good reason. Every processing department has to protect itself. Please read my past posts if you don't understand what I mean.


  • I should mention quickly that if the issue with TaaaDaaa was an eCheck one like he says, this is not the same kind of Chargeback that we have been discussing but more of an "insufficient funds in the account" type mistake that should be easy to resolved (as it was) and which shouldn't be considered a "chargeback" in the true sense of the word.


    I know this has nothing to do with your casino or with TaaaDaaa's ordeal but I was going through this same situation when he was but with Tropica Casino.  I had money in my account, and three withdrawals totaling 1580.00.  My chargeback was due to insufficient funds and from e-wallet express.  If you are saying that it really is not a chargeback than I don't know why Tropica emailed me as they did with their results regarding my chargeback.

    Hi Cindy,

    Please accept my apologies for getting back to you today only.

    Unfortunately, Management are adamant that winnings on any chargebacks will not be granted. We have therefore decided to return the deposits to you. 3 x $30 and 1 x $50 deposits has been credited back to your account.

    Although your account has been settled, we can't be guaranteed that it would have been settled, had there not been winnings due to you and therefore voided the winnings.

    Kind regards,
    Duwayne

    I paid them back in a timely manner and what is funny is that they would not contact me or answer my emails pretty much until I paid them back.  I was going to pay it back regardless. When I read their email I felt like if they told me I wasn't going to be paid my withdrawals they assumed I wouldn't pay back my chargeback.  I somewhat feel like that is why it took them so long to email me back.  It is pretty much the same thing they stated in their email to me but the shoe was on the other foot.  Make sense?  I am over it now but I had to ring in when another casino rep gives a different definition of a chargeback.  

  • Just read your comment Zuga. To my knowledge he did not make any chargebacks at any of our 3 casinos, no. The way I understand it the chargebacks he made at Tropica were resolved anyway so I should be able to get him his winnings at P8 unless I'm missing something.

    That said, if these were ACTUAL chargebacks that were unrecovered at Tropica that person would absolutely not be getting any cashout at ANY Rival casino as they all use the same processing and merchant accounts. These policies are in place for a good reason. Every processing department has to protect itself. Please read my past posts if you don't understand what I mean.


    It seems you have a different view than Tropica.  You said "if" a chargeback is not recovered they would not get a withdrawal.  My chargebacks were recovered by me and not without a hassle from the casino or threats.  I emailed them constantly telling them the situation and that I was paying them back.  I did do that but still lost my withdrawals AND the cash that was in my account when I got locked out.
  • I want to add one more thing and I'll hush....atleast in TaaaDaaa's case he seems to have someone in his corner as his voice (Jason) to help him.  I had no one.....just myself....which did NO good.

  • I just sent you an email Jason and I just pasted here also.



    I understand the casinos dont like players who have chargebacks and for us, the players, do not want to be in this situation as well because it is a completely nightmare and I just want to tell you that I did not intentionally want to have these chargebacks, but things happened.  Here is my story, let's me start with paradise8 first,


    The chargeback was not directly from paradise8, it was at Tropica casino.  I made $30 deposit at paradise8 on 11/07, it was a good deposit came from the cash available in my echeck account at a time.  On 11/15, I received an email from paradise8 that my winning were voided because I had a chargeback with one of Rival powered casino.  I emailed paradise8 back and asked my winning to be honored as I have settled the charge back with Tropica.  Paradise8 said they would review my account to see if winning could be returned, but later they still said winning was voided.

    how the chargeback happen in first place?

    I did not check my bank statement regularly as I was shorted couple dollars in my bank account and echeck couldnt debit $25 that I deposited to Tropica.

    I have settled the chargeback with Tropica as quickly as I could and also deposit money into my bank to bring it back to good standing cuz I know there were some more incoming deposits I made to Tropica ($200) and Cocoa ($100) using echeck. 

    Because of the charge back I had with Tropica, my bank began to charge me too many non sufficient fees, $34 fee for every transaction I made by the card for buying cigarette, food, gas,...as a result, echeck could debit money from my bank account for Tropica deposits, but not the two $50 deposit at Cocoa and that was how I got the chargeback with Cocoa at that time.

    For Cocoa,

    I made $50 deposit to Cocoa on 11/05 and made a withdrawal within the same day, as I kept on checking in my history and kept seeing the message "the withdrawal is proccesing", as I waited forever to get my withdrawal.  I made another $50 on 11/13 and $50 on 11/14.  I ended up have chargebacks with these two deposits at Cocoa (read above how I got these chargebacks) and I did not intend to have these chargebacks.  I could ask support to reverse my $600 withdrawal to my account and use this money to deposit, instead of making two more deposits to get the chargebacks.  Again, I thought I had the money available in my bank (if my bank did not charge too many non sufficient fees, I would have enough money to cover all my deposits by echeck during this time period), and to show that I didnot intend to have these chargebacks. 

    I have also settled these chargebacks with Cocoa a week later, and my winning still was voided.

    The winning I had with paradise8 came from two good deposits, not from the chargebacks, and it did not matter how explain to paradise8 and cocoa, they wouldnt want to listen.  I felt like (you are screw, thank you very much, we dont have to pay you) and you (Jason) were too busy and I thought I was ignored by you, so I was helpless.  I was so frustrated and just closed my account with Paradise8 and Cocoa because I felt I was treated unfairly, so please help me out on this situation.  Username is haudaica at both casinos.



    thanks alot.

    Rated:

    2/ 5

  • hate to say it, but yes jason, i was indeed referring to you. maybe "care" was the appropriate word in this particular instance, but it sure seems to me that casinos really don't care when it comes to player problems, and even moreso when it comes to US players, as we have limited places to play.

    funny how you were seemingly unaware that there was a significant problem, until the idea of a boycott was brought up, but as soon as that was mentioned...here you are adressing the situation.

    my deposits go to casinos that have GREAT customer service. period. thats the only diference between them, the games are the same everywhere...sorry if the truth hurts.

    sorry that you are stretched so thin that you don't have time to respond to all issues, but as players, we should NOT have to come to various forums around the net to try to get problems resolved. your CSR's should be able to rectify most, if not all problems BEFORE they come to this.

  • Because Jason is now looking into this issue, I will now withdraw my call for the boycott of this contest and encourage others to participate.

    I want to thank everyone for supporting TAAADAAA I am proud to be a member of this fine and decent website.

  • Jason, I have to type something here and I want you to understand I am not referring to any of the casinos you work for.  You said chargebacks are like stealing and you are right.  Stealing to me is also when an online casino doesnt pay its players in 10 weeks.  They ignore all emails, customer service says thats not their department, no one gives a straight answer when can a person reach someone in the finance department  and the casino has non operating phone numbers or false phone numbers posted on their websites. Oh and the latest one, "your account has been sent to the fraud and security department for inconsistencies in your account" when a person has done nothing wrong.  Stealing is a 2 way street.  Fine, give a person 7 to 10 days to straighten out a chargeback if they have a withdrawal pending and maybe charge them a $100 fee for time spent by a casino employee on their account but keeping their whole withdrawal money is STEALING.

  • Max, I really don't appreciate the insinuation that I am only dealing with this because of the suggestion of a boycott.

    If you had other instances which suggest this about my character then by all means, bring them up here and you'll have a leg to stand on. If you don't then keep your personal hunches and negative feelings which don't help the situation whatsoever to yourself and come to the table with facts.

    I do agree with you on one point though. I AM stretched thin and I don't have time to deal with every player concern, there's a good reason for this though. I am not a player manager, I'm an affiliate manager. I come on here and help, not because it's my job, but because I care about the reputation of the casinos I represent and the players who play at them. Please keep that in mind.

    That said, 99% of the time the customer support at the casinos do a great job. I speak to the VIP managers at the 3 casinos regularly and, like me, they genuinely care about the players at the casinos they work for. Mistakes do happen though, and sometimes the wrong decision is made. When this happens, a forum mod contacts me and I'm more than happy to intervene on behalf of a player to make sure the right thing is done. I'm going to look through this situation carefully and if it turns out that the wrong decision WAS made I'm confident I can have the decision overturned.

    Regardless of what you might think. I'm doing this not because of a threatened boycott at at forum, but because I care about players being treated fairly and the right thing being done.


  • hate to say it, but yes jason, i was indeed referring to you. maybe "care" was the appropriate word in this particular instance, but it sure seems to me that casinos really don't care when it comes to player problems, and even moreso when it comes to US players, as we have limited places to play.

    funny how you were seemingly unaware that there was a significant problem, until the idea of a boycott was brought up, but as soon as that was mentioned...here you are adressing the situation.

    my deposits go to casinos that have GREAT customer service. period. thats the only diference between them, the games are the same everywhere...sorry if the truth hurts.

    sorry that you are stretched so thin that you don't have time to respond to all issues, but as players, we should NOT have to come to various forums around the net to try to get problems resolved. your CSR's should be able to rectify most, if not all problems BEFORE they come to this.


    It was me that alerted Jason to the problem. 

    As Jason said, he is absolutely stretched at the moment and is clearly working outside of his "standard paid hours".    I for one appreciate his quick response to my message to him.

    I have no doubt that Jason will do his best to rectify the position for Taaadaaa.

    blue



  • Thanks Blue, In talks with Taaadaaa right now. Checked his accounts at the casinos and spoke briefly to Rival. Should be resolved soon.

    Just a quick suggestion to all players. If you every have an issue that you feel is being unjustly handled by P8, CC or TIV, immediately request that the issue be forwarded to the VIP manager at that casino. I know all three and they are great people that will go to bat for you.

    If for some reason you don't get a response from them, then feel free to contact a mod here like blue and they'll get in touch with me smiley

    Jason

  • Oh, btw, Gunny, I agree 100%.

  • Thanks so much Jason for your help.  My winning $620 was recovered and now in my paradise8 account.  Please also help me out with Cocoa casino.

    Many thanks.

    cool

    Rated:

    3/ 5

  • This is great TAADAA and I'm so happy for you cheesy

    This shows that there is something good even in the world of Rival casinos, and that if we work together and look after eachother we can make a change.
    Thanks to you Genenco that started this and to Jason that really seems to care.
    I will not open my accounts at the three casinos again, but I promice I will stop talking behind their backs.

  • I have to give Jason kudos for taking the time to come here and explain things.

    I have deposited at a few casinos who couldn't care less if I came back or not and know for a fact no rep would help me out if something happened.  

    If someone is willing to correct a wrong and take the time to address the issue, it speaks volumes, at least for me.

    Also.... very nice of Geneco and Blue to step up and help out Taa.  smiley



  • Great going (genenco)we should all be like you,and join together for what is right.
    You all have made my day.
    Thank you all for helping,Im so lucky i found you all at LCB,as if i have had a bit of trouble
    i say LCB and they start to listen.

    Thank you  cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy
  • ya, cocoa screwed me over in a contest.


  • Thanks so much Jason for your help.  My winning $620 was recovered and now in my paradise8 account.  Please also help me out with Cocoa casino.

    Many thanks.

    cool


    Definitely a result Taaadaaa.  Congrats.

    Thank you Jason, you are a diamond.

    blue
    Rated:

    4.5/ 5

  • Glad this finally got resolved, congrats Taadaa!

    Thanks Jason for convincing them to do the right thing.

    You hit the nail on the head when you say there is a big difference between an initial chargeback (creditcard mostly) and an uncleared deposit.
    The first one is a clear case of fraud, and fraudsters should be dragged out in the street and waterboarded.
    I fully understand and support the casino taking the hard line when it comes to fraud.

    But thats what bothered me most, that Taadaa was immediately labelled as a fraudster, while anyone with a brain the size of a peanut could easily figure out that it was a mistake, no evil intentions.

    Big thumbs up to Geneco for stepping up to the plate!


  • Thanks to everyone who supported and helped in this occurance. I was really nervous about posting, but the feeling of "This isin't fair" hit me hard enough to press the post button.

    Many thanks to Blue for alerting Jason and major kudos for Jason to look carefully at this and realize that TAAADAAA wasn't trying to scam what may very well be a good casino.

    I know I will most likely never meet any here, but it sure feels good to extend a helping hand and help in getting results.

    Again, thank you all for making this occurance come to a good conclusion. cool

  • Thank you Jason for helping TAAAADAAA out.  Geneco, thanks for rallying the troops together to help a fellow member out and thanks to Blue for contacting Jason.  Its obvious if we all stick together we can make a difference.

  • updated:  my winning of $600 is recovered and now in my Cocoa account.  Once again, thank you so  so very much Jason for taking your time to help.  Found out from your emails that my winnings from paradise8 and cocoa were recovered, I was so happy and I feel like a fat kid loves cake.  It's like my best christmas gift ever.  Paradise8 and Cocoa were in my top 5 of Rival casinos before, but  their reputation were viewed differently by me after the last incident.  With your help, they are now back in my top 5 rival casinos again and I bet there are many other players who follow my issue or view this thread will see paradise8 and cocoa are trusted, reputable, good casinos  again.
    Special thanks to geneco for creating this thread. My hope of getting back my winning was gone and your magic thread found its way to Jason.
    thanks blueday for notifying Jason about this thead
    thanks everyone for your support

    Merry Christmas

    cool cool cool

  • Very welcome TaaaDaaa! cheesy

    Glad to have helped. Like I told you in my email, I'm glad that this was brought to my attention because what happened in your case should by no means be lumped into the same category as players who actually "charge back".

    Yours was a simple mistake and in no way warranted cashouts being removed once the funds were recovered.

  • Thank you Jason for a fantastic outcome - I for one am truly relieved for Taaadaaa.  I had assumed that Taaadaaa would have been in conversation with you when all this kicked off.  In any event, it's a great outcome and Jason, you are up there with the best of them.  Honesty and fairness - two great attributes to name but a few.  

    Thank you again.

    Genenco - thank you for your thread and your courage to post it.   kiss

    blue


  • thanks blue and geneco

    you guys can expect to receive christmas gift from me, I'll pm you when it's ready to be sent, smiley


    Thank you Jason for a fantastic outcome - I for one am truly relieved for Taaadaaa.  I had assumed that Taaadaaa would have been in conversation with you when all this kicked off.  In any event, it's a great outcome and Jason, you are up there with the best of them.  Honesty and fairness - two great attributes to name but a few. 

    Thank you again.

    Genenco - thank you for your thread and your courage to post it.  kiss

    blue
  • wow taaaa congrats hun kiss



  • Hi All

    How great is this,im jumping for joy.
    Jayson you really care about you clients (good on you)And Blue you have always been there for us all.

    Thank You ,Thank You ,Thank You ,
    To all of you.


    Happy Christmas to you all. cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy
  • well guys i guess i did something wrong cheesy blue helped me get my account info for paradise 8 and coca casino im locked out of coca (i only recieved 1 bonus there and that was the signup bonus )and i dont have promos at paradise 8 their loss because i got a new job and i was coming up with a list of casinos to deposit at that i have never tried.I played at lucky red i was moving on to club world aladins of course vrc (i m a great depositer there)and coca group were on the list also slots of fortune and 21 grand anyways my list just got shorter lol (the reason i had to redownload was because my hard drive went down and couldnt be fixed i had to buy a new one)im not upset though i really dont need the headache of chasing down csr and reps because if i were to deposit and win what then? gl guys and happy spinning i just wanted to share my experience laugh_out_loud tongue tongue


  • well guys i guess i did something wrong cheesy blue helped me get my account info for paradise 8 and coca casino im locked out of coca (i only recieved 1 bonus there and that was the signup bonus )and i dont have promos at paradise 8 their loss because i got a new job and i was coming up with a list of casinos to deposit at that i have never tried.I played at lucky red i was moving on to club world aladins of course vrc (i m a great depositer there)and coca group were on the list also slots of fortune and 21 grand anyways my list just got shorter lol (the reason i had to redownload was because my hard drive went down and couldnt be fixed i had to buy a new one)im not upset though i really dont need the headache of chasing down csr and reps because if i were to deposit and win what then? gl guys and happy spinning i just wanted to share my experience laugh_out_loud tongue tongue


    Again, I've messaged the rep for you Rena.

    blue
  • thanks blue i feel really bad to keep imposing on you ,you really work hard i thank you deeply for all your hard work and lets not forget the other mods THIS FORUM RULES kiss :'X worn_out tongue

  • Hi everyone (again) smiley

    Ok Rena, I checked your accounts at all 3 casinos and here's the situation.

    At Cocoa Casino, you're not locked out at all, but you do have 2 accounts, which is not allowed, so one had been closed. This is the likely the account that you've been trying to log in to. Usually when a player has 2 accounts one is closed and both are banned from bonuses. It looks like in this case though (since you didn't claim a promo at either) they just closed one of the accounts but the other is still bonus eligible. If you don't remember your login/pw to the one that is still open I'm sure support can help you with this.

    At Paradise 8, your account was no longer eligible for bonuses likely because you signed up in 2009 and have claimed 3 No deposit promotions but have never made a deposit. When this happens, the casino is set up to stop granting bonuses because it would appear that you are only interested in free money and have no intentions of depositing. This is not always the case (like in your case) but 99% of the time it is. It's a safety mechanism for the casino and I think it's justified. That said, I changed the account back to bonus eligible for you.

    At TIV, you've never made a deposit but are still very much bonus eligible smiley

    So to recap, you are now bonus eligible at all 3 casinos, you'll just have to contact support to give you the proper login for CC since you're trying to sign in to the wrong account.

    Jason

    Rated:

    5/ 5

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